Keflyn
I’m writing a blog entry on how there is no articles on male representation in games and asking why its ok for men to be stereotyped but not women
16:37Rachel
it’s a good plan, i need to write something similar
have you found no articles on it?
16:38Keflyn
I’m gonna say how maybe its all down to jealously at the end of the post xD
16:38Rachel
haha what that we’re jealous of characters?
16:38Keflyn
No, i’ve typed it in and just got articles on women..
Your jealous of the way the characters look its why you complain about them
16:39 Rachel
maybe a little, but i’d never want to look as slaggish as some
16:39 Keflyn
That’s why i’m saying it might be down to jealously
also wrote about how it might have to do with other media and how skinny women are considered as unhealthy and a bad influence on womens health but muscly men aren’t
16:40Rachel
i think the thing with the beefy male issue is that in fighting games,you have to be beefy to fight
but that doesn’t explain why they give them generic hard-man looks
like their face n stuff
16:41Keflyn
but women in them games as well wouldn’t be as skinny as they are
16:41Rachel
nah they’d be muscly and in very good shape
i don’t mind women like that
it’s when they’re bikini clad that it annoys me
16:42Keflyn
but even magic users and stuff are always skinny as well
16:42Rachel
true
16:42Keflyn
i mean there not skinny
there equally as muscly
16:43Rachel
mm i get ye
16:43Keflyn
i mention how men are always muscly killing machines in games
16:44Rachel
it depends what the story is
a lot of fighting games stories are “killing machine getting revenge”
if you wrote that in a book no one would buy it
16:45Keflyn
nope
16:46Keflyn
its just weird how there is hardly any or nothing on male representation in games, its like the way there shown is perfect
16:48Rachel
doesn’t that show guys don’t care or don’t want to admit they they care?
16:48Keflyn
That’s what I said
but even is the minority of men are effected by it why shouldn’t they try to appeal to them like they do with women?
16:50Rachel
do a poll
ask if guys care what their characters look like
and if it turns out they do
ask people why they don’t do anything about it?
16:51Keflyn
I might do
16:52Rachel
i’d of thought women do because they’ve always been degraded by men
and the games industry is one of the only art/media one’s left to not really include women
16:53Keflyn
But would you like it if we made every female character really ugly?
16:54Rachel
it’s not about the looks, it’s about the way they’re dressed
their personalities
sometimes the looks- if they’re not even real proportions. Like when lara crofts head was smaller than her waist
16:54Keflyn
Lara croft and Nariko are sure not wearing much but there personality is about being a strong women? Men personalities in games arent always the best alot of the time there equally as annoying
16:55Rachel
but most games are good with that
16:56Rachel
lara doesn’t wear much, but she never has her cleavage out
the only thing is the shorts
16:56Keflyn
I’ve seen you wear shorts like that before :)
16:56Rachel
yup : D
which is why i don’t mind lara
16:57Keflyn
But alot of women DO dress like alot of the female characters in games
16:57Rachel
i’d of thought it was more the other way round
it kinda goes Media>Women>Games
16:57Keflyn
Thats what I mean, women in real life do wear equally as little clothes as some female characters in games
16:58Rachel
but women in real life aren’t going out fighting monsters
and most of the time they dress in little when they’re going on nights out
17:00Keflyn
I just don’t feel that women put up a good argument when it comes to this stuff because most of them are as bad as the characters. Its like when black people hate racism and being called the N word but alot of them use it themselves
17:00Rachel
i agree completely, women slag themselves up a lot
but if they were told “you’ve been missioned to fight off Lord Ezergold” or something
17:01Keflyn
yes its bad for the girls who dont but if you don’t stop doing it as a whole how can you expect the other media to?
17:01Rachel
they wont put their sexy shoes on and a bikini
17:02Keflyn
I dont think i’ve see a game where a girl in high heels and a bikini is fighting in world war 2
17:02Rachel
they released a game recently with girls in bikinis fighting zombies
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/02/10/hot-girls-slicing-up-zombies-is-something-we-can-immediately-ide/
and there’s another with this women in a latex onsie with ridiculously long legs and high heels
17:03Keflyn
thats one of them cheap arms they try to appeal to the men in order to make quick money
17:04Rachel
exactly
17:04Keflyn
i dont count them as games because there stupid
17:04Rachel
but a huge group of men got together and thought that was a good idea
17:04Keflyn
its not a serious game though.
17:04Rachel
and they’re in the game industry
it doesn’t make me laugh
17:05Keflyn
Its one of them games that were made for the purpose of horny guys
its not like one of them games that try to appeal to the mass market.
17:06Rachel
that doesn’t give it an excuse to make it though
17:06Keflyn
no but if they made a game with men in underwear nothing would be said
17:06Rachel
you don’t see any games out there where you play a beefy jerk in a leopard print thong
it would!
no one would buy it
maybe for a joke
17:07Keflyn
and you think people will buy that game?
17:07Rachel
not at all
none of my friends would like it
17:07Keflyn
I still dont think that game is as bad as the play boy game that was created by a female
17:08Rachel
but females are what playboy is all about
it’s sad
it puts women down
playboy women just want to look like porn
and that’s what’s seen as desirable
17:08Keflyn
but a women made that game so why is it always blamed on the men?
17:09Rachel
so suddenly we’re all put under pressure cause guys think women like looking like that
because the men are the majority
17:09Keflyn
the majority of gamers are men too
17:09Rachel
60% yeah
17:11Keflyn
blaming the majority isnt the way to do it
17:12Rachel
i’m afriad that’s how most people work
17:13Keflyn
and thats how people try to sell stuff by appealing to the majority
17:13Rachel
and it’s wrong
maybe women would be the majority if people tried to make games that they liked
but they don’t want to
because they think they’re the minority, and dont play games
17:14Keflyn
What sort of game would you like there to be?
17:15Rachel
i’m not a very good example cause most games please me. But i do enjoy puzzle related ones
like tomb raider
i don’t even know myself what women want
it’s hard to know if you’ve never tried it cause it’s not been made
17:16Keflyn
Lara Croft is wearing acceptable clothing for what she does, she is in alot of very hot places
17:16Rachel
she is
and they need to be durable, not like latex jump suits
which is why i don’t mind what she wears
17:17Keflyn
people complain about her body proportions aswell but she is just as exaggerated as alot of males bodys
17:17Rachel
i think old lara was a bit too unbelievable
but i like the way she is now
pretty much the same as angelina
17:18Keflyn
but look at He Man for example. he is a rediculos size and only steriods would get you there.
17:18Rachel
it’s funny cause if you look at the US army, the UK army too, they’re not beefy at all
they’re in good shape
but they don’t look like a killing machine
17:19Keflyn
exactly,, but in games there muscles have been doubled in size to that of a body builder
17:20Keflyn
that wouldnt be realistic in a game
17:20Rachel
i agree
but they’re made like that because that’s what the designer is jealous of
it’s all about fantasy
women characters are an object of someone’s fantasy
17:21Keflyn
I just think people like to complain
17:21Rachel
what they want the woman to look like
and so are men
17:22Keflyn
There all made to that state that is consider “perfect”
17:22Rachel
i think there are just a lot of social issues out there that give people something to complain about
yeah
it’s so hard
like
there are loads of women out there that are slags
and dress like it
and a lot of men like that, the woman is pretty much dressed to say ‘i’m up for it’
everything about them, small waist, big boobs, good features attracts male attention, cause that’s what genetics is about
which then puts pressure on the not so good looking people to dress like them
or they think they wouldn’t stand a chance with men
and they’re right, i’ve been shunned by loads of guys because i don’t look pretty
17:25Keflyn
Thats why
maybe its because they were just not attracted to you?
it doesnt mean your ugly
17:26Rachel
so that’s probably why sometimes i like to dress a bit sexy because i feel it’s making up for the fact i have low self image issues
17:27Keflyn
I’ve spoken to so many people that think your attractive Rachel and very pretty so its all down to personal prefrence.
17:27Rachel
oh..thanks haha
17:28Keflyn
I think a girl is more un attrative when she dresses like a slag
17:28Rachel
me too
17:28Keflyn
some dont
17:28Rachel
it was on tv yesterday on that sex ed programme that’s out now
17:28Keflyn
Thats why I think the girls in men mags are ugly.
17:28Rachel
i think some guys will want to have sex with a woman like that but then after want nothing to do with them
everything about the girl will turn them on but once they’ve got what they wanted they don’t need her anymore
17:29Keflyn
Are you as offended by pornos and men mag as you are when it comes to games that display women in the same way?
17:29Rachel
yes
i would never want to look like the girls in them
but at the same time there are things i want to improve on myself
17:30Keflyn
when they create games like that they are trying to appeal to that market because thats where they see the money is
17:31Rachel
totally
17:31Keflyn
then there are games like The Sims that appeal more to females
17:31Rachel
but i think they’re ignoring the fact there is money in girls too
17:31Keflyn
and they try to aim it more towards that market
17:31Rachel
i think a lot of women like ‘toys’ like the sims, and spore
because it’s more creative
17:32Keflyn
There not ignoring it, they just not bothered by it,They find it easier to appeal to the 60% of males then to the females
17:32Rachel
true
17:32Keflyn
even you said you don’t know what girls want from games
– A conversation between a friend and myself, we are both studying Gender in games for our Critical Studies project. It’s quite handy to have a male point of view, and I have a feeling we’re both going to be racking each others brains for answers and understanding of the opposite gender.
The beggining of the conversation started with the theory that women are jealous of the female characters, and that’s why they complain about the way video game characters look. I think in some cases Keflyn is right, the women that are created for the majority of games are made to look “perfect”. This is probably a marketing technique, if most of the consumers are men, they may be more likely to buy the game if there’s a “sexy” woman in it. But how are we supposed to not be jealous? Everything about the “perfect” character is challenging our self-image. Firstly, it was designed by a man (in most cases, I would hope) and he designed her to look how he wanted a woman to look. We are immediately aware that we don’t look like that, and unless we undergo countless number or surgeries, probably never will. So perhaps anger kicks in (in the form of jealousy) because we know we could never be her, or maybe you’re not jealous, but angry that she has been created to TRY and make you jealous. But games are not alone here, TV programmes and Film do the same thing. The main female characters of The OC are all beautiful, and most of the extras too (and so are the men). Because they know that this will attract the most viewers, without caring whether the majority of teenage girls and boys will tune and “wish I looked like that”, because they are still watching it, despite their insecurities. In fact, it’s probably their insecurities making them watch it. But the difference between TV/Film and games is that that actors in TV and Film are real people, and so they are believable. Where as the characters in games are created by someone, and so instead of thinking “They’re beautiful, I’m jealous of how they look but that’s just how genes work, it’s not their fault.” we think “They’re beautiful because someone made them like that. I’m jealous because that’s what someone thinks I should look like.”
We also adressed how it’s not only women but men that are created to be “perfect”. Let’s use Chris Redfield as an example:
In the first image, he resembles a generic man, medium built and not outstandingly attractive. In the most recent version of the game, they have made him extremely muscly, and although it’s difficult to see here, made him slightly more attractive looking. The first image is much less intimidating, his physique is believable for what he is required to do. For some reason, they decided that he needed to be pumped up on steroids and undergo some facial surgery in order to what? Encourage more players? There is already a large audience that play Resident Evil, and would buy it despite a change in his appearance. Maybe they wanted to encourage girls to pick up the game, as everything about his body reflects the Sociobiological Theory of Attractiveness where women are attracted to men who look like they can protect them. This also explains why men are more attracted to women with a small waist, big hips and large breasts, as they show signs of fertility. I certainly hope men are intimidated by his appearance, as it would give them a taste of their own medicine.
Gender In Game Design 